ars_longa: (love letter)
ars_longa ([personal profile] ars_longa) wrote2006-02-17 10:20 pm

Am sithin' mad

You will never need to know algebra. I have never once used it and never once even rued that I could not use it.

Yeah, right. I'm a moron so it's not a big deal for everyone to be the same kind of a moron I am.

Why do I complain, though? As long as people are thinking something like that I'll have some means to pay my bills, after they come to me crying, unable to pass 'this damn class that is, o horror, required to get a diploma'.

You'll never need math. Yeah, right. Listen to him, girl, the country needs more cheap workers to do unqualified jobs.

[identity profile] doctor-iola.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:32 am (UTC)(link)
i will be the last to advocate less education as opposed to more education, but they do have to somehow make it a bit more relevant. as a college student i did physical chemistry, and calculus, and biochem, and all the "fun" and difficult things, but if i didn't go into medicine, i could have wiped my bootie with my diploma. and even though i did go into medicine, i have NEVER used any of my organic chem, or physical chem, or calculus knowledge....(or lack thereof now), and that is considering that biochem major had included the most courses required for entrance into medschool...

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
(вкрадчиво) то есть тому, что напрямую для работы по специальности не используется, учить не надо? География наука не дворянская?

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:40 am (UTC)(link)
The algebra, even a beginner's algebra, is the greatest tool in developing systemic logical thinking that I know of. If you can't manage this, I would trust you, well, probably, to saw a button to my coat, but nothing that requires any highest degree of brain functioning. 'Cause, really, it doesn't come simplier than that on this level. If even that is beyong your abilities... sorry, hon, you're out of any competition as far as I'm concerned.

(You in this case is a collective. :))

[identity profile] doctor-iola.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
did i say anything about algebra?
i had shitload of it. and geometry. and even got up to differential equations and triple integrals.
i guess, i'd have to agree with what was written below--a good teacher can most likely present the informaiton in such a way that it makes it relevant to the world.
and good teachers are indeed rare.

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 05:11 am (UTC)(link)
They are. But that's not a reason for flunking math. Gosh, if I had flunked each subject that was taught by a shitty teacher in our school, I'd have never complete it at all! Who said learning always supposed to be fun?

[identity profile] doctor-iola.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
so what's the explanation for kids not learning it? just plain stupidity?...
that's not curable i'm afraid...

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Sometimes it's not stupidity, but stubborness.

[identity profile] dswdiane.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 06:26 am (UTC)(link)
Sometimes it is just that the teacher's style of learning doesn't match the students. A teacher who thinks in pictures, for example, may not be able to teach a student who thinks in words.

I had that problem with Statistics in studying mutiple regression. I had a teacher who visualized how it worked and tried to explain that way. I had to take most of that classs to my previous stat teacher who taught me Analysis of Variance and who could use words and logic to explain it to me.

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 06:29 am (UTC)(link)
I usually do both, if I think the student is not getting it. Thankfully, I'm not teaching anything beyond intermediate level.

[identity profile] dswdiane.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:45 am (UTC)(link)
Arrrrgghhh. Arina, you are absolutely right. Learning algebra and geometry teaches the requirements of logical thinking as does no other discipline.

This article made me crazy, but what makes me even more crazy is that there is no reason for students with reasonable intelligent to flunk algebra over and over. The problem is almost always bad teachers.

I will never forget the calculus teacher I had in college who asked me to stay after class one day and then informed that I was asking too many questions and slowing down his class. He told me that no one understand calculus. One only memorizes the equations. Classical example of a *rotten* teacher.

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
If I had 10 bucks for every "You're making it so easy! Why don't they teach us like you do?" I hear at my working place, 'd have paid all my debts already. I'm totally not joking.

I think I'll have to homeschool my son. At least in math and other related subjects.

[identity profile] dswdiane.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 05:35 am (UTC)(link)
I once had a class of students in which I was the graduate teaching assistant send me a dozen roses.

I taught Abnormal Psych. I didn't make it easy. I taught a lot of information not in the book. But I made it make sense. Students appreciated that. I was once told I had the highest student evaluations scores of any GTA in my psych department.

And yes, it was a lot of work and a lot of preparation, but it was worth it to do it well. But not worth it to essentially get paid only about $5/hr not counting lecture preparation time and test making and grading.

I know what you're talking about. And I have taught my son most of his math and science even when has been able to attend school. (he spent most of three years in the school system's home school program because he was too depressed to atttend classes).

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 04:49 am (UTC)(link)
And I'd recall this teacher's license immediately, if it was up to me. People like that have no right teaching in schools.

[identity profile] dswdiane.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 05:30 am (UTC)(link)
Yah

[identity profile] ryrma.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha. According to my daughter (who got the full truckload of high-school math here, unlike her brothers) - it's THE way to teach Math in the US schools... The textbooks are written in the "take this, put it here, - voila, here's your answer" style - so, they can't be of much help, either.

So, eghem... you'd have to fire about 90% of the teachers... :)

Oh, well... at least, not all of them forbid asking questions...

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I know, I deal with the victims of this system every bloody day.

[identity profile] ryrma.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I know. Poor you, lucky them. I had it for a year (and I was not even teaching Math, just computer basics!) - and I'm still horrified.

[identity profile] averros.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 07:04 am (UTC)(link)
Someone got to wait tables and say "Your luggage, sir!"

*indifferently*

[identity profile] keturah.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I would not listen to the male-secretary's views on mathematics, if I were her.

Nevertheless, this does not surprise me at all. I completed two years at public school in Texas (in Houston area), and then the latter two years in California, and I testify that I lost an entire year of math. So I believe part of the problem is not an attitude against math, rather poor ethic of teachers in this state, and definitely at my school.

On the other hand, if Algebra is really that tough for her to fail 6 times, it is probably too late. I would also encourage her enroll in some homemaking class or a typing class, and if this is not disheartening to her, then my point stands true.

I was horrified to hear a student in the physics laboratory section for which I was serving as a TA complain, "This is so much math!" As it turned out, she was complaining about pure arithmetic. She was some engineering student!

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-18 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I had a couple of student who wanted to enroll into the nursing program who told me something like: "I don't need math! Why would I need it? The doctor is writing a prescription. I just need to have God in heart and care for people."

Thankfully, our department chair and the dean don't share this view. :)

[identity profile] ryrma.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh well, the daughter of our frienda is applying to Canadian Med schools. Some of them consider extracurricular activities and "leadership" to be more important than MCAT results...

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, there are schools like that here too, but guess how many people who graduate from them come through the lisence exam?

[identity profile] ryrma.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, yeah.

"Most of math can now be done by a computer or a calculator."

Sure... I recall how a guy like that was presenting me my tuition bill... He looked at the computer screen (a couple of numbers in $200-s and three more two-digit numbers), added them on his calculator, and proudly gave me the resulting $700+ bill. I was speechless, so I just muttered something, left and came back another day to pay the bill...

Oh, and the guy had (of course!) a BA diploma proudly displaysed on the wall of his cubicle! Grrr!

If only all of THEM would carry suitcases or mowing the grass! Lots of'em are calculating your bills or doing other (rather important for your life) stuff. :(

[identity profile] ars-longa.livejournal.com 2006-02-19 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Remind me one day to tell you about the student who was complaining to my supervisor about me because I told her she doesn't need a calculator to add 15 and 6. :)